Babylon costume designer Mary Zophres on THAT iconic red dress and Margot Robbie love
Mary Zophres, Babylon costume designer. Image: Hussein Katz
Babylon was perhaps the most polarising film of the summer, but there is one thing we can all agree on: the costumes were outstanding. So exceptional, in fact, that costume designer Mary Zophres has earned her fourth Oscar nomination.
Also up for best original score (Justin Hurwitz) and best production design (Florencia Martin and Anthony Carlino), Damien Chazelle’s comedy-drama tracks the rise and fall of multiple characters during an era of decadence and depravity in early Hollywood. With the film set mainly in the roaring 1920s, Zophres had months of research under her belt before she set to styling stars, including Brad Pitt, Diego Calva, Tobey Maguire and Australia’s Margot Robbie.
This isn’t the first time Zophres has partnered with American auteur Chazelle to bring one of his passion projects to life. She worked on Best Picture nominee La La Land and the Ryan Gosling-led Neil Armstrong biography First Man. The creative has been designing for film for almost thirty years, working with filmmakers, including the Coen brothers (The Ballad of Buster Scruggs, True Grit), Christopher Nolan (Interstellar) and Steven Spielberg (Catch Me If You Can), but never before has she worked on a project of this scale. Zophres created over 7,000 costumes for Chazelle’s love letter to cinema, obsessively stitching character-specific detail into every seam.
In a discussion ahead of the 95th Academy Awards, we discover her college cultural awakening, why she flocked to costume design like a moth to a flame, why she’ll never say no to Chazelle, and what makes Barbie girl Margot Robbie so special to work with.
Brad Pitt as top-billing actor Jack Conrad in Damien Chazelle’s Babylon
A big congratulations on your Oscar nomination for Babylon. How does it feel to be nominated again?
Thank you. It feels great. To be nominated by your peers in a category amongst the people that I'm nominated with… I'm just blown away by all of their work. To be on that same level, in the consideration of my peers, is a huge, huge honour.
Your fashion roots can be traced back to your parents’ clothing store, The Bottom Half. But what—
Oh my God, you did your research!
I did. So, what first sparked your passion for costume design?
I think it started because I loved movies at a very young age. And that, I think, was sparked by my mother. My mother was a huge film fan. We had a tradition where we would go see a movie every week. No matter what. And not always an appropriate movie for a child. I saw some R-rated movies when I was definitely under 10. On the weekends, we would always watch an old movie on AMC or Turner Classic Movies.
I grew up in Plantation, Florida, which was not a very cultural place. I swam a lot. I went to school. I did well, but it wasn't a very good school system. But it never occurred to me… I had nobody around me that was in the film business.
“I never understood that films were made by people. I think I thought they were made in a vacuum” – Mary Zophres
So I had this love of movies. I didn't know what I was going to do with my life. I was an art major and an art history major, and I thought about working at an art museum, at a gallery. I didn't think I was going to cut it as an artist. I had internships at Art Forum and nothing really felt right. But in my courses at college, you had to take theatre for a year and then you could take film. In my first film class, they screened [François] Truffaut's Day for Night. It's a movie about a movie being made. And then the light bulb went off. I didn't really understand that you could work on a movie until I saw that film.
By the end of the second semester, we were making our own films and we would take turns. You would act, you would do the cinematography, the set, costume, direct, sound and technical…
Jovan Adepo plays the trumpet as Sidney Palmer
You were able to dip your toes into every aspect.
I got that filmmaking fever. And I knew immediately I was behind the camera. I didn't contemplate on-camera. But when I graduated from college, I moved to the city. I didn't have any money… and I had to work for free on a few films, like student films and independent films. Someone suggested, ‘You should work in the costume department.’ At first, I was resistant because I didn't want anything to do with clothes – maybe I was rebelling against my parents’ business or something. The first day I worked in the costume department, I was like, ‘Oh, of course!’ It all made sense to me. I took to it like kindling. It was like a fire that exploded in me. I thought this is where I belong – and I never looked back.
Damien Chazelle directing on the set of Babylon
You've worked with the Coen brothers and Damien Chazelle quite a few times now. What is it about them that keeps drawing you back?
I just think they're brilliant filmmakers. I'm attracted to my projects by the director. And I really have found through the years – I've been doing this a long time now – that especially people who are writers and directors, if they've written their material or rewritten the material, it's so embedded in their brain that there isn't a question they can't answer. It's integrated into the language of every conversation that you have. It makes the process feel like it's more cohesive, more collaborative, and it's somehow complete for me. That works for me.
“I would be crazy not to accept jobs by them when they ask” – Mary Zophres
I mean, I'm working on a project now that the writer… it was a great script, it was a really fun script, and it was a fun subject matter and there were several other reasons why I took it. But Damien and the Coens, the way they make their films… I love their films. I was a fan before I worked for them. With Damien, it was just Whiplash, because he's so young. But with the Coens, I was an uberfan. So to get my first job on Fargo as their designer, like, I can't tell you how loud I screamed or the fool I made out of myself in the interview.
Working on their movies is such a great experience that I will drop anything to go and design a film for them. Ethan's semi-retired and then he directed his own film [Jerry Lee Lewis: Trouble In Mind]; and Joel did his own film [The Tragedy Of Macbeth]. I'm not sure what's going to happen, which is kind of sad. [Pauses] I never take for granted that they're going to call again. I don't take it for granted that Damien's going to call again. And then when they do, I jump at the chance.
They've both been some of the absolute most positive experiences in my filmmaking career. I owe my career to both of them. I'm so lucky.
Margot Robbie as Nellie LaRoy
With Nellie’s amazing red opener, was it your intention to create the next Halloween costume, so to speak? Because I can see that becoming a cinematic icon in the years to come.
[Chuckles] No, it was not. It was a very important change. Honestly, it was the hardest costume change to figure out. We started by making prototypes and trying to figure out what it was going to be. And also doing it so that [Robbie] could have something to rehearse in, because at first she was rehearsing in her sweats. But then it became clear, like, okay, this is a complicated dance; she's going to be surrounded by 350 background dancers. I would say we did maybe six prototypes. At first I wanted something that had movement because as the dance develops, so did the theory of the costume. Then, as there were more dance moves that were developed, I was like, ‘Oh, I think she needs to have a tap pant on’. Coinciding with trying to figure out what this first look was, we were having fittings with her once, sometimes twice a week.
The first fitting I had with her was based on a photograph I found of Anna May Wong, who was a very famous 1920s Asian star. She had a scarf… it's so sexy. The scarf wrapped around her neck and it's just covering her breasts. Barely. We did that. There's a photo I have from Margot's first fitting with the fabric that we use – because it was literally a scrap, it was not a very big piece of fabric – and it's her in that top. We were like, ‘Okay, that's a winner. I don't know where we're going to use it, but it's a winner.’
Li Jun Li as Lady Fay Zhu
It was very bold and audacious in the same way the script is, in the same way her character is and how she opens the movie. It felt a little scrappy because she shouldn't look like she has a ton of money. My hope was that she cobbled it together. We had another choice or two, but after the camera test we said, ‘Yeah, that's the one.’
Working alongside Florencia [Martin], who's the production designer, we knew no one else in the scene would wear that colour red, or red at all, and that we would just have hints of it with production design and set decoration so she was the focus of the frame whenever she was in it. She goes there to get discovered, and the costume helps tell that story.
Diego Calva and Jean Smart
I love the contrast between Nellie’s open red number, when we first meet her, and the high-necked ruffled dress she wears at the Hearst party. I think for women, in particular, feeling comfortable and confident in what you’re wearing has a huge effect on your mood in a social setting. Nellie is obviously very uncomfortable, which adds to the overall anxiety of the scene. Do you find it easier to design for women because you have experienced those female idiosyncrasies?
No… I mean, I think it's the same with men.
I have a firm rule to never have anybody go to camera in something that they don't feel like their character in. You need to feel it. If I've accomplished that, if the actors that are in my cast feel like their character, then nothing makes me happier or like the collaboration is spot-on between that artist and myself. That's the most important thing to me.
I find it the same for men and women, to be honest with you. And yes, of course I understand female insecurities, but I also think that you find them in men and trans and everybody. Everybody has their thing.
Lukas Haas and Diego Calva (from left)
Working with Margo, did you get any insider information on the costumes for Barbie?
I know what you know. I've seen the stuff online. I do know that Margo has such a perfectly proportioned body, and she wears clothes so gracefully and understands character. It's such a good combination that I know she's going to look unbelievable. I think Jacqueline Durran [The Batman, Spencer] is a highly talented designer, so I’m looking forward to it like the rest of the world.
I hear your accent and I think so fondly of Margo.
Oh, that's wonderful! To be compared to Margo in any way is a huge honour.
I love her so much.
Tobey Maguire as James McKay
When an actor reads a script, they're drawn to the character arc, the emotional journey. When you read a script, what makes you think, ‘I have to be a part of this?’
The same thing. It’s the story and the emotional arc. First and foremost, I am drawn to projects by the director. I will say that that's how I pick my projects, or try to. But then it's a script. This is so basic, but it's like, would I like to see this movie? If I don't want to see it, I don't want to design it.
That's a great way of going about it.
I do prefer to do period or world-building movies. But a good script is a good script.
If you had to describe your absolute dream project, how would it go? What era would it be?
The 17th century in Italy.
Oh, gorgeous!
Or Greece! Lots of paintings, lots of food and the beautiful countryside.
